American Flags and Church - part 2

This is a continuation of yesterday's post on American Flags and Church.  You can read part 1 HERE.

There are several reasons that I am personally opposed to having American Flags on church platforms.  Here (at random) are some thoughts:

• The primary reason I'm opposed to American flags on a church platform is because of the singularity of purpose of a church service.  We have gathered to worship God - not to worship or admire a country.  I think everything we do needs to be purposeful and intentional.  And as good as patriotism is - I'm not sure that needs to be a standing value we have when our priority is the worship of God. I am fine and great with displaying our patriotism and national pride at school events, sporting events, and concerts.  But in a place where the sole purpose is to worship God? I think an American flag given a place of prominence is out of place.
• American flags were first displayed in church by Catholics. About 150 years ago, Catholics were accused of being more loyal to the pope than to our country.  So they began displaying American flags to prove they could be loyal to both the pope and also to our country.  Two world wars and churches who sponsored Boy Scout troops increased the popularity of displaying the flag from platforms.
• I would think that Baptists would have been among the latest of adopters of flag display--as it was Baptists who fought and died for the proper practice of Separation of Church and State.
• I remember visiting with a pastor from Germany, and I asked him what he notices about American church services that seems different to him.  He instantly responded with this statement: "It seems to me that Americans confuse patriotism and worship." I totally agree - especially in some old-fashioned, Bible-thumping, King James only churches. They seem to be over the top with Patriotism. 
• Those churches often sing, "God Bless America" - and I can't get this question out of my mind, "With where our country is morally - CAN God bless America?"
• Another reason I don't like flags on a church platform is that the flag represents a "banner" of our loyalty and our authority.  The true banner that we follow is the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ.
• And when the word "freedom" is mentioned in church - I don't think American freedom should be the primary thought that comes to mind.  When people at North hear the word "freedom" - I want them to think about being free from sin's power, free from sin's penalty, free from an eternity in hell. Those are the primary thoughts of freedom I think we should have.  I think American flags can distract us from the greatest of freedoms (spiritual freedom) - to political freedoms.

Just some random thoughts. One last thought - I'll save for tomorrow... this is getting a bit longer than planned.

Comments

[Bob Adams]

"old-fashioned, Bible-thumping, King James" is a compliment in my view :-)

[Bob Adams]

and a blessing!

[Dan Francis]

I get the same complaint here at BBC too....probably just as much as the music complaint. Thanks for articulating some good thoughts on the subject.

[Ruth da Silva]

Pastor whiting,
I agree 100% with you. God bless you.
Grace alone.....

[Laurie Giese]

..... never respond, but this time please allow me a moment of your busy day...
I agree 100% with everything you are saying, except for 3 times
The marriage service of a military man.
The retirement service of a military man.
The funeral service of a military man.

Terry and I haven't last one yet but we did request it at the other two that took place in a church.
Laurie Giese

[David Whiting]

Laurie -
I agree with you. My comments were about church services. Those three are not church worship services. I think those are great times to use a flag.

David

[Ed Sawyer]

Let me begin by stating that first and foremost I consider myself a Christian, and second a citizen of the United States, a Country that I too love dearly and that I gladly sacrificed to protect and defend for 28 years. That said; let me tell you what I see on those rare occasions when the US flag sits on our stage. When I see the US flag on our stage on Memorial Day, I am reminded to be thankful for and to pray for those whom God placed on the battle fields and whom God called upon to sacrifice their lives in order to maintain our One Nation under God. I thank God for those men and women. On the weekend closest to the fourth of July the flag reminds me that we are a Country placed on this earth 233 years ago by the hand of God, and that we will continue to exist only as long as God allows. I am reminded to thank God for blessing this country for another year, though I often wonder how long his patience with us will last. On Veterans Day I am reminded of those whom God called upon to serve and whom he used (and still uses every day) to maintain our freedom to worship him openly without fear of serious physical jeopardy; and it reminds me to pray for and thank God for my own son and the sons and daughters of others out there today. Seeing our flag on stage three days out of the year does not cause me to put Country above God, nor does it interfere with my focus upon worship or distract me with visions of undo patriotism. Rather, that flag reminds me that this country is here by the grace of God and by the grace of God alone; perhaps we should pray more often for our Country at Church since we can no longer do so in our schools. Interestingly, we are also given the freedom to display or not display the flag; the choice in this case is ultimately yours.

[David Whiting]

Ed -

Although I am VERY thankful for our country - I am not sure that we need thankfulness as much as we need repentance. And holidays alone remind me. I don't need a flag to remind me to pray for the repentance of my nation. But I am sure your view is shared by many at our church. Thanks, Ed!

[matt]

Hi David,

It looks like the discussion has died down, but I thought I'd still share my thoughts. One of the first things I look for when attending a church is whether there is a flag on the altar. I don't think it should be there, for many of the reasons you listed, and also because of the fact that love of country is a political issue. Or rather, the political issue is what form that love should take, and how it should be expressed. In theory the flag is a symbol for our country, for the union of many different people under one set of ideas we can all abide by. But in reality, the flag symbolizes other things which vary from person to person and group to group. Some people think it symbolizes the right of everyone to do whatever they please, subject only to some very loosely defined notions of harm to others, while others think it means supporting the war in Iraq.

It is impossible to put a flag on the altar and not have it be a political statement. Both members and newcomers will interpret it as a statement in favor of the politics of the leadership or of the majority of the members, which in this case is probably Republican. Some people might not have a problem with that, but I think one of the strengths of North is the solid, pervasive focus on developing devoted followers of Christ, regardless of our political beliefs. The message should be that, so long as we share a core belief about the nature of our relationship to God and the role of Christ in redeeming that relationship, we can gather together to worship God, and to encourage each other in that difficult and lifelong struggle with the demands that that belief imposes on us, regardless of how we might vary on some political issues. If we allow ourselves to start defining that core set of beliefs more narrowly, we will withdraw into ourselves, losing focus on what really matters, and reducing our ability to influence the world for Christ. Passions for both God and country run high, and we should take care that we do not confuse the two loves. Sometimes they are in conflict.

One final point: not having the flag on the altar does not mean we do not love our country; it just means that love of country is not relevant when we gather to show our love for Christ. I wonder whether people who are upset that we don't keep a US flag on our altar year-round would be equally upset that churches in other free countries do not do the same with their flag?

Thanks for taking time to post these thoughts. It's helpful to me that you let us know the reasons you do things, and I appreciate your (and North's) focus on Christ, who is the reason we are all there anyway.