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November 09, 2008

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Jason Z.

David,

Well said. Thanks for posting this.

Jason

nathan

So because EVERYTHING is a part of God's plan, we are to rejoice in it? If you had been present when Adolf Hitler rose to power, would you have encouraged the imprisoned to smile and turn the other cheek? Where do we draw the line?

nathan

I don't want the tone of my last comment to be misconstrued--the question was not meant to be disrespectful in any way. God does have sovereign control over the entire universe, but he has also blessed each of us with free will. While I agree that our true hope lies in the Lord, why would it be wrong to put some of our hope in the leaders we elect? Why would one be glad to see the rise of a dangerous man (whether it be our current president-elect or someone else)? It frustrates me to see Christians look the other way (or take delight) as our nation moves in the wrong direction. The United States of America is a gift from our God, and I believe that as Christians, we have a responsibility to maintain the freedoms which allow us to be effective evangelists.

Dave Allen

Thanks for your thoughts on the election. You are correct that we need to pray for the Mr. Obama and included in the prayer should be that God would change his mind about the abortion issue and that God would wonderfully save him, if he is not already a child or God's We should also be willing to make our concerns known to Mr. Obama whenever his actions are not Biblical and we should do that in a tactful way.

It is evident to me also that Mr. Obama is who God wants as President for God's eternal purposes because I am sure that many true Christians were praying for McCain/Palin to win and God's answer was a resounding no.

You are correct in pointing out that our confidence is our Heavenly Father and our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. "Some trust in chariots and some in horses, but we trust in the name of the Lord our God" - Psa. 20:7 (NIV).

May God continue to richly bless you as you minister for Him.

Dave
2Cor 4:5

Joe DeGroot

It's continually surprising to me how much our view of escatology affects our take on current events. (This post is a great example of that.) For this reason, it's unfortunate that so many of us spend so little time studying anything related to end times. David, have you ever considered preaching on this subject? It seems so integrated with your worldview (I noticed it on Sunday as well) that it might be useful for the church to understand where that all comes from.

Joe DeGroot

Maybe the first step is learning how to spell eschatology, huh? :) Can't this thing have a spell checker?

Mark D

"Religion" and politics all on one site. Talk about a lightning rod. :) Our house was split down the middle where Will wanted McCain to and Drew's inclination was towards Obama for some reason. This was a good thing because we were able to talk about the role of government in light of the provision of God in our lives.

I rejoice when God's will is done here on earth but also realize that no matter what various state constitutions say, the only thing that matters is what has been written. I also take comfort in knowing that November 4th changed nothing that is ultimate - nor will anything us puny humans can conjure up.

How this all plays out in my life, well...it is imperfect at best. I take comfort knowing that the One that made all of this happen slings me over His shoulder and carries me straight through it.

Nathan

We cannot stop the inevitable, but why must we assume that the end times will occur sooner rather than later? Why not focus on the additional souls we may bring to Christ under the protection of our democratic system rather than dwelling on the impending doom? Why must we be so negative?

Joe D

Nathan, that's kind of my point; our (often unexamined) end-times beliefs directly affect how we view what is happening right now. We'll be optimistic or pessimistic depending on whether these beliefs say the world is becoming a better or worse place.

Jfishjosh

Firstly, I don't think we can have any real hope in our leaders. We can hope that they will serve in a Godly fashion and that Christ will be at the center of their decisions, but we cannot place any real faith or trust in them. Even though they may do wonderful things, they fall short as all humans do. I am reminded of Saul. The people demanded that God provide a King, so they could be like other nations. But Saul was a failure and it proved that the people needed God first. Even David, while being after God's own heart, still fell and it hurt people.

Secondly, I don't see anything wrong with David's comments about desiring persecution. We are so unwilling to give up anything, though we are called to give up everything. What would happen if we saw our possessions as what they truly are: God's and God's alone. But we live in this incredibly materialistic and self-centered world that allows us to focus on just ourselves. (Imagine our world if Christians lived in real community. What if we gave up paying for health insurance and instead paid for each one another's health concerns? What if we pooled our resources and served the Church the way they did in Acts?)

In this instance, I am reminded of the text "Life Together" by Dietrich Bonhoeffer. This incredible man opposed Nazi Germany during the 40's, leading an underground seminary that taught holiness in an intense community. The book is a wonderful look at what Christian community should be.

That was all a tangent. We are to rejoice in persecution and I don't think there is anything wrong with desiring a real persecution, one that will show the world our devotion to God and allow us to really strengthen that devotion (I think it would sort the weeds from the wheat a bit, as described in Matthew 13).

Alice

Thank you soooooo much for sharing your thoughts on the election. It really means alot.

Alice

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